2007/05/11

ونعم الحوار المتحضر !


قرأت اليوم بجريدة العفن هذا الخبر

ومن دافع الفضول وددت الإطلاع على موقع رابوسويات المذكور أعلاه ولم أتفاجأ من ما أظهره لي محرك البحث غوغل من نتائج عن مواقع تحمل العبارات التاليه :
"موقع يجب تدميره ( رابسويات )"
"دعوه لكل هاكر هنا (رابسويات) يجب تدميره"
"بالله عليكم دمروا هذا الموقع"
"مطلوب هكرز بصفة عاجلة لتدمير موقع"
"الان الموقع مغلق من قبل مدينة الملك عبد العزيز"
"اريد اى برنامج يدمر الاميل لاصحاب موقع رابسويات"
"اروع برنامج للجهاد الالكتروني ضد....."

هنا سؤال للمسلمين هل أنتم فعلا مؤهلين للتحاور مع الآخر ؟
هذا الآخر مهما تبعطز واستهزأ بدينكم لكنه لم يتجرأ يوما على إختراق مواقعكم التي تبث سموما من الحقد والإرهاب حتى بين المسلمين أنفسهم.
كل البشر ملتزمين بالمبادئ والأعراف الإنسانيه التي تنص على عدم التحريض على العنف وعدم إرتكاب الجرائم بما فيها جريمة الإختراق إلا أنتم فالجريمه لديكم دائما مبرره تحت شعار "قال الله قال الرسول"

لا يوجد سبب يبرر الجريمه فالمجرم مجرم سواء كان مسلم أو بوذي أو مسيحي.

إستمرار المسلمين بهذا النهج العدائي هو دليل واضح على عدم ثقتهم بعقيدتهم .

لأننا عشنا زمن غسيل الأدمغه وتزييف التاريخ بتنا نرى جيلا إسلاميا أصوليا ليس قادرا على الدفاع بما يؤمن فيه إلا بالوسائل المنحطه.

ألم يؤلف مسيلمه وغيره من أدباء الجاهليه آيات ادعو انها قرآن ألم يبدع المتنبي بروائعه وادعى النبوه؟

أسئل جماعة منافقي الوسطيه والإسلام الليبرالي أين الحوار الذين تريدون؟ أنتم تبررون جريمة الإختراق الإلكتروني وتسمونها "جهادا" دفاعا عن عقيدتكم غدا لن أستغرب ان بررتم الإباده الشامله بالكيماوي والبيلوجي وسميتوها "جهادا"

فعلا نشكر القدر أن القوه بيد الغرب الإنساني وليس الشرق الإقصائي.

24 Comments:

Blogger حمودي said...

اي والله صاج اشوه ان القوه مو بيد المسلمين جان صار تطهير عرقي بحت للعالم كله ليس لانهم كفار بس لكن لانهم متقدمين عنا وبهذه الطريقه نصير اقل منهم فلازم نقتلهم ... المشكله اهمه رافظين للحوار لان ببالهم ان الدين الاسلامي او الدولة الاسلاميه مثل مدينه افلاطون المثاليه ولكنها خياليه واذا تم التفكير في تطبيقها سوف تنصدم بصخور الواقع الذي يرفظ ان تتم السياده فيه لناس دون ناس وان تتم السياده فيه لعرق فوق عرق او دين فوق دين او تكميم الافواه فهذه المثاليه عندهم والجزيه من اكثر مبادئ المساوات لديهم فهل يعقل هذا الكلام في عصر اصبح للعقل معنى اكثر وللانسان قيمه اكبر ففي هذا العصر لازالوا يحرمون حقوق الانسان ولازالوا يحللون العبوديه فاي حوار ستدخله معاهم سوف تغلبهم به لذلك يرفظون

12/5/07 09:56  
Blogger kila ma6goog said...

i agree:)

12/5/07 17:22  
Blogger Mohammad Abdullah said...

How ridiculous! You ask Muslims whether or not they're ready for open communication with others. I ask you (and others like you) the same. Just because a certain group (no matter how big or dominant) is more vocal than the rest does NOT mean that the majority of Muslims are like this. It's funny how you who claim to be the seculars, the true vanguard of human rights and freedom, like to pass judgment on others and limit their options merely on a whim. You people are the living symbol of hypocracy.

Besides, how in your sick mind do you justify labeling the Muslim extremists' response (no matter how violent it is in your opinion) as a crime, while considering what the other party did simply a form of communication and their right to exercise free speech? Do you not see the irony of your ways?

One other thing in your post that I find funny, is how you end with "I thank destiny", as if you're trying to push away any implications of you being a Muslim, or believing in any God for that matter. In my life I have known many like you. And unlike the Muslim extremists who like to over-react to cases like yours, I never go to such lengths simply because any strong action on my part would only serve to give some significance to your words, which is something you never had to begin with.

Another issue that shows the blatant hypocracy of your "secular" and "humane" ways is your double standards when it comes to passing judgment on Muslims and others. Muslims have their sacred beliefs and some more than others would be over-zealous in standing up for them. In your eyes, any such action is "barbaric" and "inhuman". But tell me, what do you do when your beloved west destroys people's lives simply on the notion of discussing the extent of the over-dramatized holocaust? Two old and distinguished Harvard scholars became social outcasts and lost their life's work merely because they published a scientific paper on the ever-increasing influence of the zionist-lobby in the US, and how the over-exageration of the holocaust plays into that. Yet no one in your democratic west, no you people who blindly follow, ever took an effort to seek the truth in what happened.

This is merely a drop in the sea as they say, but you people are too busy with your focused-yet-distorted view on Islam, and your never-ending quest to defame Muslims. You keep complaining about issues in your country, yet you'll never be able to drive change because you lack credibility and ethical standards.

I know that there's a good chance of you deleting this entry like you've done in the past when you didn't like what some people wrote. Fell free to do as you wish.

Have a nice day!

13/5/07 07:56  
Blogger blacklight said...

حمودي
إذدواجية المعايير والمطالبه بالمساواة كالماء والزيت لا يختلطان . من يرى أن مقدساته يجب أن لا تمس فليس له الحق أن يمس مقدسات غيره.

مطقوقنا
مشكور على التواصل عزيزي

13/5/07 10:31  
Blogger blacklight said...

mohammad abdullah
don’t worry ur flaming and trolling wont be deleted cuz it doesn’t contain swearing and personal insults directly or at least u weren’t drunk when u wrote these words unlike the loony I’ve dealt with the other day.
now to ur post:

1-oh majority and minority selectivity in Islam hmmm let me see bin laden doesn’t represent Islam , Tobtobai doesn’t represent Islam , ben Authaimen doesn’t represent isalm I wont be surprised one day when u guys say your prophet doesn’t represent Islam Too. from 100000 raciest fascist Muslim you want to convince me that only 10 or 5 of them really represent Islam?! Convincing me that the sun is revolving around the earth would be much easier than that.

2- Hypocrisy? Pardon me but I don’t listen to the latest music on my way to the mosque. I don’t pray in the middle of my affair/date. IF u demand for more examples I guess you are a monk living in an outcast unaware of what’s going on. Hypocrisy u say ?the most suitable definition of hypocrisy in the dictionary is "Islam and Muslims"

3-obviosuly u don’t understand the "freedom of speech" concept that’s why u see hacking schemes as a justified right well at least if my blogg gets hacked I would’ve known that u r the one to be blamed

4-destiny Vs the Muslim God. Certainly I cant say that Muslim god is the reason for you guys to be the last in everything that would be harsh therefore I picked a more diplomatic word to describe it.

5-Oh sacred believes cant touch this .... give me a break. if your believes are sacred why u dare to insult and attack other believes ? I couldn’t care less about Zionism and the west but for your information Jews are a race and a smart one too unlike other races they globally with a legal approach defended their case. I don’t care if it happened or not cuz i have nothing to do with it. you guys might cuz u always use it as a pathetic excuse to criticize secularism. btw secularism is a tool that most civilized countries in the world have implemented its not western exclusive as you think it is.

6-the change is coming the only thing that we liberals lack is organization and team work. Credibility and ethics lose their noble means in the hands of raciest hypocrites individuals like Muslims who only bring terror and chaos to others.

13/5/07 12:24  
Blogger Mohammad Abdullah said...

First of all, you don't seem to know what "flaming" and "trolling" are if you labeled my comment as such. And "at least I wasn't drunk"? Yeah, you're off to a good start my friend...

1- Do you not see the irony in your words? The three names you sprung upon me follow the same sect (Salafi/Wahabi). So what? Do you think those are the only Muslims? What about the other sects? My friend, there are over 1 bilion Muslims in the world today, and only a fraction are loud enough to be heard. This does not mean that they represent the silent majority. Yes, I agree that the Islamic nation is in shambles right now, and we have but ourselves to blame. But, this does not mean that we as a whole endorse what the extremists preach.

2- You also seem to misunderstand the meaning of hypocracy. Who told you that listening to music on the way to the mosque is hypocracy? Individual duties are between oneself and Allah. Do what you feel is right, and Allah will be the judge in the end. Once again, don't base your judgment on the actions of the loud minority.

3- I never said that hacking was ok. I was merely refering to your double standards when it came to categorizing the actions of the aggressors (the people trying to falsify the Holy Quran) as their right of speech, and the actions of the angry hackers as crimes.

4- Your response for point number 4 doesn't even make sense, so I won't bother replying.

5- I never criticised "secularism", I criticised "hypocrite secularists". There is a big difference. Unlike you people who like to generalize and attach all bad aspects to Islam, I know that secularism as a concept has its merits, but it is the bad execution that is hindering any positive results. And on the subject of zionists, then the mere fact that you find their cause legitimate just because they were smart enough to falsly advertise it disgusts me. Do you believe that the end justifies the means? Also, you may claim that you don't care about the whole issue, yet you don't have any trouble singing praises to the same west that acts against its secular values when it comes to this particular issue. And that, my friend, is the pinnacle of hypocracy. And I know that secularism is not western exclusive, but the point I was making was in reference to your comment about thanking destiny for the powers being in western hands.

6- Once again, by generalizing and attaching all bad things to Islam and Muslims, you are only serving to undermine your own argument. Change is coming? I welcome it with open arms as long as it's positive AND adheres to what the people want. However, always bear in mind the paradox that you "Kuwaiti Secularists" present: You claim that Islam robs you of your basic freedoms (most often things like alcohol and prostitution are mentioned, unfortunately), but by trying to enforce your desires you are also robbing a majority of devout Muslim families of what they consider a clean environment to raise their children in. Meaning that to get your own freedom you are robbing others of their's. And please, save some face and don't try the age-old logic of "but people can already get it through illegal means. Legalizing it would yield better results." because it's been done to death yet could never hold in the face of sound logical arguments.

13/5/07 12:47  
Blogger blacklight said...

1st of all trolling and flaming are defined as attempts to deviate the topic and emphasize criticism and discussion on the writer personally .check ur replies and see that u couldn’t go on discussing what I’ve wrote without accusing me of hypocrisy or having double standards. Personally I know what you’ve done is a reaction to my very offensive words against Muslims in general. btw I meant them to be that way so no matter what u say my harshness that u label as stereotyping wont got softer in the future .
Now replying to your reply mon ami

1-Salafi wahabi? Ok did you wanted me to mention Hassan naser Allah? Ayato Allah khomainy or moqtadah elsader? Or maybe you prefer Sofies who are labeled more infidels than us seculars ? or maybe you want Al-Ekhwan who use every religious way possible to achieve political and financial gains.
the only way for Muslims to be peaceful individuals respected by other nations is to keep their religion cuffed in the mosque by a huge chain like a bulldog. you Muslims cant reason with your fundamental Islamic scholars or political representatives because they obviously exceed you in religious and political knowledge .your religious personal customization no matter how peaceful it is doesn’t change the fact the religious representatives are mostly fundamental or raciest.

2-that’s the total hypocrisy I’ve dealt with and lead me to abandon Islam . you guys because you have rigid verses with vague meanings customize your religion any way you want. Islam claims to be an integral entity that contains everything including personal matters like behavior, attitude and lifestyle. When I see those vary to the degree of opposition from one person to another don’t expect me to stand there and say “all people are wrong and my religion is the one mentioned in history before1400yrs”
religion ,ideologies ,principles all need tangible implementation to be performed correctly by others that’s why don’t expect me to follow a religion that has a tag “prototype”

3-lol (sorry I couldn’t help it) I told you that’s part of your emotional reaction I had a total neutral opinion of what happened and I didn’t side with them or against them(u may read my post again to make sure).I mentioned that Islam has faced this before as historical fact. the reason of writing this post was to criticize the barbaric responses I’ve read through the search engine and ask this simple question “are Muslims really ready of what they are claiming of?”

4-the best way to abandon a lost case is to label it as “nonsense” thanks a lot for letting me win this one I really appreciate it mon ami.

5-well sorry to disgust you but its “survival for the fittest” always have been and always will be. I never dealt with Jews before or saw how the Zionists are clashing with secular principles as u claim without proves. Btw the holocaust issue is not contradicting with liberalism or secularism cuz Jews are defined as a race not as religion followers. Secular laws strictly forbids offending races and that’s why Jews won their case hope u understand this without saying irony or hypocrisy cuz if u say so u don’t realize the bad consequences that would happen if races are allowed to offended.

6- Why we say Islam robs our basic freedom? Because u guys don’t believe in individuality and always try implement your illogical believes in the form of laws and regulations. You think if I lived in a secular country I would’ve hated Islam the way I did? Humans have the right to choose no matter how low and filthy that decision may sound you have to respect their freedom to choose .good thing you had the courage to say the word consider before saying “a clean environment to raise their children in” because its certainly not. Humans always tend to oppose things that imposed on them without reason .prostitution and alcohol are optional for adults and some think they are a must for their life to go on by banning them you give the people the desire to do them even if they are married and have families. our male bachelors have suffered and became hungry hounds and our females became even worse than prostitutes thanks to your backward mentality.

13/5/07 15:50  
Blogger Mohammad Abdullah said...

No, It's still not flaming. Pointing out the hypocracy and/or double standards of your post is just part of the argument. I will not sugar-coat my words just to make you feel better. It would've been flaming had I insulted you with something personal yet irrelevant to the topic, such as calling you "drunk" for example.

1- You say that Soufis are labeled as infidels, but by whom? This is not a general consensus. And Al-Ekhwan are a poilitical movement and not a religious sect, so don't mix the two. The fact is, there are many different groups under the umbrella of Islam, and it is foolish to adopt the views of the loud minority when you want to criticise Islam as a whole. And who said we can't argue with our scholars? I've had many discussions with many scholars, even with some crazy old scholars from the infamous Saudi "Committee" while I was on pilgrimage there. Just because some people choose to blindly follow does not mean you have to do the same. And I completely disagree on your point regarding how Muslims can gain the respect of other nations. We actually lost the respect by deviating from the true values of Islam and trying to blindly follow the west while dwelling on insignificant matters of the past.

2- No one told you to think that you're right and everyone else is wrong. Again, just because some people do it doesn't mean you have to too. Personally, I believe that non-Muslims who have achieved great things for humanity are much better than many Muslims who do no such thing and just curse the others and call them infidels. Islam is not just a label you flaunt, nor is it your full-coverage insurance that covers your ass even if you are harming other fellow humans.

3- Don't assume things please. I was more amused by your words rather than offended. The fact is you based your judgment for Islam based on the reactions of few. So what? It's been known for a while that many of these extremists have the technological know-how to initiate these attacks. It's nothing new, but let's not give them more than their size. They do not represent Islam. Real Muslims are "ready of what they are claiming of" as you put it. I and many others have always had channels of communication with people of different schools of thought (Christians, Jews, Budhists, Atheists. and such), nothing wrong with having civil discussions. I do not approve of what these hackers are trying to do, and I'm sure as hell this is no Jihad whatsoever. On the other hand, I have no respect for the original aggressors who fail to provide any civil discussion and instead take a similar course of action to what you criticise the Muslim extremists of doing. Yet, I don't see you labeling them as racists like you do with Muslims, my friend!

4- Don't misunderstand, and don't try to self-gratify by extracting meaning that isn't there. A lost cause? "Certainly I cant say that Muslim god is the reason for you guys to be the last in everything that would be harsh" that was your response, and I don't see how in hell it's supposed to be addressing my original response. It makes no sense whatsoever. But if it makes you feel any better on the inside, then I'm pleased to give this point to you my friend. Enjoy your victory!

5- It's not a matter of race vs religion here. The fact is, even in your beloved west, you can slander anybody and anything, but if it comes to zionists and the holocaust, even if you're scientifically discussing the issue without discriminating or offending anyone, you will have hell unleashed upon you. That is the ultimate hypocracy my friend. You either let all topics be fair game for discussion and/or slander, or you keep the lot under wraps.
By the way, Jews are not a race. Judiasm is a religion. I don't care what the biased media tries to impose, but if Jews are considered a race, then so should Muslims and Christians and such.

6- Again with the generalizations! Who said I don't believe in individuality? The difference between you and I is that I see both sides of the argument. You cry over your lost freedoms, I acknowledge that my freedom ends when it clashes with the freedom of others. Yes, humans have the right to choose whatever they want, but to say that you have to respect their choice is also paradoxical since you yourself are not respecting the Muslims' choice of not wanting what they consider "filthy" and "immoral" as part of their lives. Not all our male bachelors have become hungry hounds as you put it, and not all females have become worse than sluts. Again, just because you go to Marina Mall and see these cases doesn't mean the majority are like this. Many of these cases are simply a failure on the parents' end, or the result of a troubled household. Besides, if you view alcohol and prostitution as a necessity, you can still get these in your country rather easily, or you can always cruise to Dubai for some fun. Even better, you can follow the lead of your esteemed idol "Bo Rakan" and relocate to a western country of your choice. And once more, you end with a generalization by labeling me as having a "backwards mentality", when it is in fact you who have the wrong mindset that is full of arrogance, selfishness, and hypocracy.

13/5/07 23:13  
Blogger أبو إسحق said...

عبالهم الانترنت بس لهم

14/5/07 00:15  
Blogger blacklight said...

Hmmm I couldn’t help my self from accessing your profile and I was amazed all this energy to debate and waste my time for repetitive issues which are discussed every day
every where yet you don’t have your own blogg?
What’s more amazing that you are recently joined blogger and mark my words if you are a person that I’ve debated with before either in the forum or the bloggs I wont keep this debate up Because I don’t waste my time on cowards who change their identity to deceive others.

Based on your lengthy letter you are a flavorless person who is offended by every secular Kuwaiti out there because you dragged the same typical issues that Kuwaiti seculars face from flavorless opponents.(don’t take it personal for labeling you as flavorless because that’s my way of seeing a person of unknown standards).again I will split your topic into other segments and discuss what was important only.

Islamic representation:
The myth of loud minority and silent majority that we got sick of hearing daily by hypocrite whiners that are unable to choose a liberal path or Islamic path.
Excuse me but I have no respect to your religious approach and I’m not willing to discuss the Islam that is in your head. Not every liberal you debate with lacks Islamic knowledge including me I hope you keep this in mind. Before giving me another lecture of your “discovering Islam” quest.

Zionism :
the typical weapon against the western world which makes you certainly a ban Arabism fanatic. been there done that I said what I had already in that stupid issue and each is entitled to his opinion .for your information the holocaust is considered an anti Semitic crises that’s why it’s a racial issue hope this helps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Semitism
(btw since u hate the west that much why you are using their language to debate talk about irony),

A grudge maybe?
an unexplained hate for Bo Rakan who is a true liberal figure that’s acknowledged by all liberal bloggers.i wont defend Bo Rakan cuz I know how his words of light make hypocrites suffer in pain.

Defected freedom :
The rudeness and claims to be “Mr I know it all better than you low life scum’s” is making me more certain of who u are but anyways back to your mono Islamic freedom.
you don’t see the thing from our view you simply couldn’t careless about minority rights that’s why you are selfishly siding with majority advocating the canned catch phrase” my freedom ends when it clashes with the freedom of others” typical brainwashed submissive answer. And the irony is that you rape the freedom of that minority in the name of freedom of majority claiming to call that freedom. No freedom in this world affects the others it’s a myth blessed by religion that Arabic governments use as an excuse to make you shut your mouths whenever necessary. Yes absolute freedom doesn’t exist and there are international norms that limit its use the problem is that you Muslims will never approve those norms which are million times fairer than your miserable religion.
Also you strongly support Neglecting of liberal free demands which differentiate true liberals from hypocrites who you encourage running away and enjoying the cruse. Using your same rude principal I ask you to enjoy your cruse in Mecca and never come back to Kuwait. who knows you may get exposed to the lights of the “marina mall” leading you to dump conclusions like the one you had about my social judgment

14/5/07 02:05  
Blogger Mohammad Abdullah said...

Mr. conspiracy theorist! This is the first time I ever debated anything with you. I do not have a blog because I'm normally very busy, and I'm also not good at writing and such. And no, I am not a coward who hides behind a fake identity. I currently have some free time on my hand, and I somehow came across what you wrote. I don't even remember the string of websites I must've clicked through to end up here. I wanted to comment on your topic, but anonymous posters are not allowed so I had to register an account. Anyway, seeing as how your tone has somewhat gone down the drain, this will be my last response.

I am not offended by all Kuwaiti secularists. I am offended by the contradictory ones. Sadly, what you wrote makes me think of you as the latter variety. Given how small our country is, I wouldn't be surprised if we turned out to actually know each other. And in such a case I'm 100% certain that you'll be leading a hypocritical double-life to hide your true believes from real-life acquaintances.

You call the issue of the silent majority a myth, yet you cite no evidence to negate my claims. Furthermore, you label me as a hypocrite whiner who cannot choose between an Islamic path or a liberal one. However, I don't believe it's as clear cut between the two paths like you suggest. I don't want the non-Islamic existence that you liberals seek, but I also don't want the revival of the state of Islamic Khilafa that the extremists want. What is wrong with having a balance between the two? I do share some of the beliefs and goals that you guys harbor. I am not all that satisfied with the way things are in Kuwait now. But two wrongs don't make a right, and I sure as hell don't want either you guys or the extremists to have your way in the end.

When I cited the zionist issue, I wasn't using it as an attack on the west. I'm just showing you how lopsided you were in your judgment. Why not use this one issue to generalize and attack the west like you like to do when Islam is involved? I don't really hate the west. Like I said in an earlier post, I acknowledge the good things the west brought, and I sure as hell hold westerners who helped benifit humanity in much higher regard than typical Muslims who just sit and weep, cursing the infidel west for what they have become. By the way, I'm merely using English to debate because it's more convenient for me to type in. My keyboard does not have Arabic labels, and I don't like to type using irc-style "Arabish". Besides, this is as good a chance as any to practice my English writing.

A grudge against Bo Rakan? Hardly my friend. I did not attack him in any way. I was only using him as an example since you people hold him in high regard. He does have some good points from time to time. Unfortunately, the majority of times he's off-target. Besides, by voluntarily exiling himself from Kuwait while still writing about internal issues, he kind of lost credibility in my book.

I did not claim to know best, nor did I label you as scum. However, I will address anything I believe to be false. And like I said before, I will not sugar-coat my words to avoid hurting your feelings. And I'm surprised that you disagree with the notion of your personal freedom being bound by the freedom of others. But wait, did you just contradict yourself and say that you approve of international norms that limit one's freedom? So as long as it's not Islamic, you can accept whatever is thrown at you?

And nice touch with the ending there buddy. Enjoy my cruise in Mecca and never come back? And marina lights leading me to dumb conclusions? Pure gold my friend. Like I said before, I am not an extremist. I embrace my beliefs to the degree that I feel is right, and I also enjoy what life has to offer. And believe it or not, many of my friends are not religious at all, I even know a few Kuwaiti atheists. I do not fall within you imaginary categorization of Muslims.

Anyway, I'll end my post here. Like I said, I won't respond anymore since you clearly were not up to it (as was clear by how fast your tone degraded in your last post), which leads me to wonder why you allow comments in the first place if all you're seeking is praise and acknowledgment from fellow secularists!

14/5/07 03:17  
Blogger blacklight said...

“Your tone has somewhat gone down the drain”
my tune is reflection to the commenter reply but with a critical effect so when you waste my time and focus with your blunt delicate flaming I will flame back sharply with roughness.
I hope my tune has taught you a lesson how to discuss issues in a respectful manner without accusing people of irony or hypocrisy. and believe me a person like you who doesn’t adopt a certain ideology is the bottom of the food chain here and will be labeled “hypocrite” most of the time that’s why I advice you not to use it because it will have a worse effect on you than your opponent in a debate.

Now replying to your last reply after ignoring and filtering your flaming

“What is wrong with having a balance between the two”
nobody is satisfied by this neither us or them the change must take place either in its fundamental or secular form people will be responsible for their choice .if we leave things as they are now the fundamental form roots will be impossible to remove like the Saudi, Iranian, Afghani cases.

“share some of the beliefs and goals that you guys harbor”
You may do but your destructive approach proved the opposite to me. instead of a diplomatic civilized way of discussing what we might agree on you started false accusations and flooded the post with pathetic sub issues such as Zionism and your personal view of Islam which are both irreverent to the original post.

“you just contradict yourself and say that you approve of international norms that limit one's freedom”
Very typical Kuwaiti reply to the concept of liberal freedom YES liberal freedom is limited by international norms .international norms forbid incest ,rape , child molesters ,cannibalism …etc if you think those are ok to be allowed as part of the liberal freedom I rest my case.

“So as long as it's not Islamic, you can accept whatever is thrown at you”
What a ridiculous reverse psychology form of teasing who do u think you’re dealing with 12 yrs old? We are fully aware of the Islamic alternative that’s why we choose the international one.

“I do not fall within you imaginary categorization of Muslims”
No personal offence I have more respect to those than your type of people at least they have clear thoughts unlike the vague ones that you have.

“Leads me to wonder why you allow comments in the first place if all you're seeking is praise and acknowledgment from fellow secularists!”
On contrary comments are there for your type of people to make us practice how to deal with false accusations and complete nonsense. I really thank you for this discussion you proved to me that your type of people pose a true threat to our march.

14/5/07 08:45  
Blogger Mozart said...

mohammad abdulla

your attempts to decieve people with false information like "tolerance of muslims" might work sumwhere else but not here , after all we were born muslims and we know what kind of islamic bigotry and hatred is transulated to brainwashed ppl in any islamic community . wake up and smell the coffee my friend .

second of all , you have no right what so ever to flame the writer of this topic or our blog just becuase you dont agree with the content of this topic , on what ground you accuse us with hypocracy ? as a matter of fact , we are the ones who have the right to accuse you with barbarism because of two reasons , the first one acting like a stereotypical muslim who does not accept the freedom of speech when it concerns islam ,the second reason is that you have diverged from this topic to an extent that one would rather to wait for a tree to grow than to waste his time replying to your gibberish nonsence .

if you dont know how to reply politely or accept different opinion , or you think that we hit a spot inside you , i advice you not to reply and visit a shrink as soon as possible , otherwise , these kind of uncivilised replies are not welcomed here and will go to the trash bin where they belong . this is my last warning .

thank you

--

14/5/07 15:11  
Blogger عتيج الصوف said...

هذا يبين جزع و هلع هؤلاء المتأسلمين
نشاط الحركات العلمانية و الليبرالية في إزدياد..والوعي بدأ ينتشر بشكل أوسع و أوضح من السابق..
في الماضي كانوا يشوهون أي معنى لليبرالية ولكن بعد القرية الصغيرة لإنترنت أصبح الكل يطلع على أفكار الآخر و بسهولة
يحاولون إقصاء الرأي الآخر خوفا من إطلاع العامة على مدى ضعفهم و فسادهم الذي يعيشون به
بإسم الدين و الوطن
سنعريـــــــــــهم من كل شئ تستروا وراءه

16/5/07 07:45  
Blogger Mishari said...

سؤالى اللى اطرحه عليك عزيزى هو ليش التعميم؟
انا مسلم وافتخر بدينى ولكن لما اشوف واحد يغلط يا اما نتاقش بحوار عقلانى او انى اعطيه ظهرى وامشى وادعيله ان الله يهدى على حسب مبادئى واقتناعي

ما اسب
واكره اللى يكره الشخص الثاني على غير معنى
يعنى اخلاقى الحمدالله موجودة بفضل انى مستمدها من دينى
ولا انا سلفى
ولا اخونجى
لكنى مسلم واؤمن بالحوار اللى يحترم عقلانية وايمانيات الشخص

16/5/07 15:02  
Blogger blacklight said...

عتيج الصوف
شكرا على دعمك عزيزي

مشاري
بدايه أشكرك على لباقتك عزيزي
الموضوع أن ردود الفعل الإسلاميه باتت تعكس مدى العنصريه وعدم جاهزية معظم المسلمين للحوار. بموضوع سابق لي وضعت رابطا يوضح كيف كانت ردة فعل المعلقين المسلمين من وجهة نظر المفكر الإسلامي جمال البنا من موضوع الحجاب
.

كما قلت بمداخلاتي أنا لايهمني ما فعل
أصحاب الموقع .ما يهمني فعلا كيف وصلت الجرأه لبعض المسلمين (كي لا أجرح المشاعر) لتبرير الجريمه بدافع الدفاع
عن المعتقد.هذه القضيه التي فعلا تهمني

16/5/07 15:43  
Blogger Doctor said...

عزيزي بلاك لايت
نصيحة ان لاتدخل في جدال بيزنطي مع اشخاص يفسرون الاسلام على هواهم ويعتقدون انهم هم الصح والبقية خطأ
اتفق معك في كل ماتفضلت به من كلام وهو صحيح 100% ولكن هذا الكلام يصلح لاشخاص يحكمون عقولهم قبل اهوائهم
تسلم انامل يدك
تقبل تحياتي

17/5/07 10:29  
Blogger راعيها said...

بس بغيت أوضح شي

انا شفت الموقع .. و القائمين على الموقع ما زوروا القرآن لكنهم استهزؤا فيه .. يعني ألفوا آيات المفروض تكون فكاهيه باللهجه العاميه.. و السؤال منو أخطر على الإسلام .. الأغبيه هذول أصحاب الدم الثقيل .. و الا خالد العدوه اللي حاط لحيه و يدافع عن حرامي العصر؟

أما سالفة الحوار .. غياب الحوار مستحيل يكون مسئول عنه فرقه واحده أو طرف واحد .. بعيدا عن التعصب راح نشوف المسأله أكثر تعقيدا

17/5/07 18:46  
Blogger blacklight said...

دكتور
أشكرك عزيزي على إطرائك لكن هذه الحوارات ضروريه كي نثبت لأصحابها هشاشة فكرهم إن كان عندهم فكر أو مبدأ واضح بالأساس. كما قلت إني أحترم الأصولي صاحب المبدأ الثابت المستمد من الدين أكثر من التائهيين الذين لا هم لهم سوى إنتقاد أصحاب الأيدولوجيات مدعين المعرفه الكامله.

راعيها
القضبه مو قضية خطر على الإسلام وتوجيه اللوم على طرف معين القضيه بإختصار شديد هل الإساءه للأديان تبرر الجريمه؟

أما الحوار وفائدته المرجوه نعم أنا أتحدى كل اللذين يؤمنون بمنهج الوسطيه أن يحققوا شيئا . الفوارق العقائديه خلقت حاجزا بيننا وبين العالم لن يزال إلا بفكر سياسي قائم على العلمانيه المحايده التي لاتفرق بين مسلم وغير مسلم بالحقوق والواجبات.

17/5/07 20:18  
Blogger بدون خبث said...

موقع رابسويات لا يتعدى الطنازه على القرآن

فتش وراء السبب

القرآن أيضا يتمسخر و يسخر من المسيحيين و اليهود

و يقول عنهم قرده و خنازير و ضغادع

ليش نقبل الطنازه من القرآن و ما نقبلها من الناس

؟!!

20/5/07 08:17  
Blogger شباب روش طحن said...

الحقيقة المسلمون يعتبروا الملحدين مجرد زبعة في فنجان تتجدد كل فترة ولكنها ما تلبث إلا أن تزول ولذلك هم يفيرون العناء بتدمير مواقعهم في الحقيقة أن ظاهرة الإلحاد تظهر كل فترة لعدة أسباب إجتماعية وإقتصادية وتعيد نفس الكلام القديم ثم يتصدي لها العلماء المسلمين وينتهي الأمر فالشعوب لا تعيش بدون دين وخاصة شعوبنا فنحن أرض الأديان منذ فجر التاريخ المهم من يريد أن يتناقش حول الإسلام فليتجه لي وأهلا بالحوار الهادف

20/5/07 20:54  
Blogger Abdullah said...

أكرر بالحرف ما قاله اخي مشاري

الله يعطيكم العافية

30/5/07 04:44  
Blogger مفكر حر said...

أعتقد أن أغلبية المسلمين بالشكل الحالي غير قادرين على التحاور فيما بينهم فما بالك بالتحاور مع الآخرين. الأغلبية من المسلمين لا يريدون اعمال عقولهم على الإطلاق في أمور الدين و اكتفوا بما يقوله لهم شيوخهم. و هنا باعتقادي تكمن المشكلة حيث تتحول الأفكار المقولبة من قبل الشيوخ إلى إيمان و بالتعريف لا يمكن إثبات الإيمان سوى بالدفاع عنه كأنه جزء لا يتجزأ من المسلم و هذا الدفاع غالبا ما يأخذ صورا من الإنفعال و الغضب و عدم القدرة على التمييز بين الحق و الإعتداء على حقوق الآخرين. إنه لا يسمع كلام الآخر و إن سمعه فلا يفكر فيه للحظة لأن ذلك في اعتقاده قد يأدي به إلى فقدان "الإيمان" الذي في اعتقاده هو إن فقده فقد استغنى عن ذاته , و هذا من وجهة نظري غير صحيح فهو قادر على خلق مجموعة من الأفكار الجديدة التي تحتوي على تحسينات مستقاة من الرأي الآخر. على العموم فإني لا استغرب ردود فعل المسلمين في هذه الواقعة لأني أدعي أني أعلم الكثير عن طريقة تفكيرهم و كيفية صنع القرار لديهم.

شكرا للموقع الشيق و بالتوفيق.

مفكر حر

31/5/07 21:48  
Blogger 3antaroosi said...

يا اخي والله دين مسخرة

5/6/07 03:25  

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